It's Over. We've lost.
September 2nd, 2008. The 2008 Election ended this morning as a vast cadre of liberals, progressives, Democrats and like minded journalists lifted the white flag and surrendered.
We surrendered something a whole lot more valuable than our vote. We surrendered our principles. We surrendered our core values.
We surrendered all hope. We surrendered our shared dreams that our daughters would inherit a better world, a world of promise, equality, justice, fairness and honor.
We had dreamed of a world where our 17 year old daughters wouldn't be striped naked and raped on the front page of the New York Times, above the fold.
We dreamed of a world where a candidate, man or woman, could run for the highest office in the land and not be "swiftboated" with sexual lies and slander so vicious, so cruel, so gross and destructive that they actually wither our very soul.
I actually believed we were better than that. I actually believed "swiftboating" was the sole property of Republicans. I actually believed we wanted to debate the issues. I actually believed we wanted the real change so eloquently promised by Senator Barack Obama. I actually believed we wanted a better world for our sons and our daughters.
So I thought the extremely bizarre story, so obvious a blatant lie, that somehow appeared in The Daily Kos, claiming Governor Sarah Palin had somehow faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her wayward teenage daughter would be laughed off and quickly vanish from the Kos pages like the trash it was. It was a joke, A sad, sick joke.
But instead of the aborted fetus it should have been, it was born full grown into the waiting arms of liberal bloggers and journalists, who quickly passed out cigars and congratulated themselves as proud mamas and papas. All this in spite of the fact that absolutely everyone knew the story was an absolute lie.
The only thing we aborted was the truth.
Like all lies, it took many forms and grew in dozens of directions simultaneously. The Huffington Post, already in full blown Palin Derangement Syndrome, ran every possible rumor, variation and invented more lies to compliment the original. And the main stream media, who for a solid month refused (absolutely refused) to reprint or broadcast a single word of the John Edward's affair, ran with the verifiably fake Palin story within hours of it's publication.
All of a sudden, "Did you hear what they wrote in The Kos" became an acceptable substitute for fact checking. Of course, since one single phone call could disprove the story, nobody in the mainstream media could be bothered to pick up a phone.
Finally, Governor Palin was forced to issue a statement. She had no choice. She advised the salivating media of her teen daughter's pregnancy. And that's when we finally surrendered our all of our most cherished principles.
Armed with an official statement, nothing could possibly hold the main stream media back and the liberal blogosphere went berserk. The full fledged gang rape of Bristol Palin was underway. Any shred of decency that remained in the liberal blogosphere was gone.
Remember that wonderful Academy Award Winning Movie, "Juno?" Remember the warm and supportive television series "The Secret Life of An American Teenager?" Remember liberals demanding we treat a pregnant teenager with love, support and respect. Well, fuck that shit, there's a conservative teenage harlot to burn at the stake!
There are a very few crying "don't." I point with great respect to The Ikonoclast and to Lee Stranahan over at HuffPo, but the mob is out of control and cannot hear their pleas.
Barack Obama himself is pleading for restraint. But the town sheriff's eloquence cannot stop the mob. There's a lynching to be held.
And now, on day two, we're going full force after the teen father. Seek and destroy. Seek and destroy. Seek and destroy.
So I'll simply leave you with the eloquent words of one of our very own leaders, Senator Dick Durbin, who on June 12th of this year said:
"But I will tell you this: the hottest ring in hell is reserved for those in politics who attack their opponents’ families. And if there are some strategists who think that’s the way to win the election, I think they’re wrong."
At the time Durbin said it, I didn't think it was true.
But I do now.
Labels: 2008 Presidential Election, Sarah Palin, women's rights
posted by the WIZARD, fkap at 9/02/2008 10:53:00 AM
114 Comments:
There's nothing new here. It's normal "leftwing" behavior. As Republicans, conservatives, real liberals, pretty much everyone who's not a socialist hypocrite, we have grown used to this kind of crap.
Really, we kind of expected this kind of stuff. She is a woman who isn't pro-abortion and a socialist, which means that the Democrats will try to gun her down figuratively.
Black republicans face similar attacks. We as republicans have come to accept this sort of thing as usual, and as much as we hate being attacked we deal and keep fighting.
Politics is dirty and nasty business, I think Sarah is a tough enough woman enough to be able to take the (rather ridiculous) heat and keep fighting. You know what they say, things are "Tougher In Alaska."
modifiedcontent and doc merin.... welcome. Thanks for adding your comments.
I don't think Sarah Palin is the loser here. It's the liberals and progressives who have lost. We have lost our integrity.
We are not honorable opponents.... not today at least.
We are not honorable opponents.... not today at least.
Hate to break it to ya, wiz, but y'all haven't been honorable since the Florida recount.
Lots of people still believe that Gore took Florida and only the intervention of SCOTUS gave Bush the presidency.
And they still believe it because the "objective" press, after going down and counting those fargin' punch-cards for themselves, did not trumpet their findings far and wide. The story bobbed to the surface of the news cycle for only a moment, ever to be forgotten and never mentioned since except on talk radio and the dextrosphere.
It's true that the Palin Derangement Syndome (PDS) that has revealed itself in the past few days has been particularly vile.
But the difference this time is a difference of degree, not of kind. Remember how Hillary got totally dissed by her own party when somebody more beautiful came along? When Bill began to complain about the obvious bias, we all said, "Welcome to the Republican party, yo."
I know you don't want to believe that the press is biased or that your fellow dems are capable of such odious behavior (and we all know that there are plenty of dems who are as decent as the day is long), but we Republicans are both repulsed and delighted at this display of unhinged PDS.
Repulsed for obvious reasons; delighted because maybe more people will see them for who they truly are.
If you are just waking up then you have been sleeping longer than Rip Van Winkle.
I note that even awake your first instinct is to play the poor me victim card. Suck it up. You have work to do.
I just wanted to say that people like you make it possible that one day that better world will be there. Although I am a conservative I don't believe the issues that divide us politically should ever be as divisive as they have turned out to be.
Please - not all "liberals" (whatever that means) are guilty of this. There are specific people who have perpetuated this outrageous story, and they can be identified, but I'd bet that you didn't do it and I know I didn't do it. Blaming "the opposition" is something that many of the so-called "conservatives" have become very practiced at over the last 7+ years (thanks to Lee Atwater and Karl Rove for the lessons), but I see no need to internalize guilt for something YOU didn't do. God (or her designee Satan) will punish the barrators when they end up in her clutches.
If you actually believed that only Republicans could behave in such a horrible way - then you are a naive fool. Welcome to America.
I am so sorry for all of us this election has been reduced to this.
I also agree with some of the other comments... this type of action has been leveled at any republican for many years.
That said, I am still sad. I am sad to see someone's dream, their world view, proven to be false. Even if it was perhaps wrong all along.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
And with Sarah's family.
B
The Left abandoned millions of people in Vietnam to be chopped up and destroyed.
Principles of classical liberalism were abandoned by the fake liberals, decades ago.
It is only now, now when people are paying attention to a huge influx of information, that they are starting to get the clue. Maybe with 9/11. Maybe with Afghanistan and how the Left turned against Bush's war there to free the Afghan women. Maybe Iraq. Maybe now.
As the hateful voices of the Left viciously attack a vulnerable teenager, even more revealing and disturbing is the silence of those others who will not join in but will not call out the haters for the contemptible worms they are. That this liberal voice is virtually alone in condemning these hateful attacks speaks volumes about the hypocrisy and the moral and ethical bankruptcy of the liberals and the Left.
*****
After writing the above comment I ran across this explicit statement of malicious intent:
http://www.firstthings.com/blog/2008/08/31/the-politics-of-blood/
**********
Wizard, I salute your integrity. Would there were more like you; our country would be better served.
Similar tactics have been leveled by Republicans as well. I am NOT making excuses. It isn't right, so as Americans, where do we go from here?
(thanks to Lee Atwater and Karl Rove for the lessons)
It's really weird that folks seem to think that Karl Rove is some kind of magical ringmaster whom we all follow in lock-step.
And this "Blaming 'the opposition'... that ... many of the so-called 'conservatives' have become very practiced at over the last 7+ years" is something you'll have to enlighten me about. We only "blame the opposition" for the things that "the opposition" actually does.
Unlike some, who blame Bush for hurricanes and 9/11 and conservatives for the low tone of political discourse.
Wiz, I said that the radical Left is showing their true colors not out of partisanship but because I spent 5 years in an Ivy, and I know some of these people personally.
Most of the people I met were cool enough, but others were filled with such an unspeakable rage toward the evil rethuglicans that it boggled the mind.
And if you know anything about the BoM, you might want to recall that thrice the cultural elite try to foist a king on the population, and when they're rebuffed, they run off and anoint their king anyway, subvert the war out of spite, and join the enemy to become more savage than the savages.
Watch closely and you will see emerging some frightening parallels between the modern elite and the ancient ones.
Some things never change. Ever.
Now that the scales have fallen away, take another look at the Swift Boat thing, and you'll see that the people who were "Swift-Boated" were the Swift Boat Vets themselves, not Kerry.
I would like to think that maybe something good will come out of this election. Maybe that is naive, but sometimes it takes things getting so ugly that people are forced to re-examine their biases.
There are despicable people in both parties, but they are not the sum total of either party and we both lose when the name calling starts to take over and people stop seeing the excesses on their own side and focus only on what the other side has done wrong.
I didn't take the Wizard's post as accepting responsibility for anything - only as lamenting the association, however remote, with people who were doing something that isn't right. That's how societies put pressure on malefactors - through shame. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, if it happened more often we'd see a lot less of that sort of thing.
It takes guts to stand up against your own side - especially in a hard fought election. Unless all you care about is gaining power at any cost (in which case it is arguable there absolutely is no difference between you and those you oppose) you have to be willing to stand up for what you believe in. I'm surprised you take issue with that, Mark.
I have been a blogger for some time on the larger right wing sites. Like you I have decried the level of our political discourse and called on my fellow conservatives to denounce bomb throwers like Ann Coulter.
But it must be said that Ann Coulter never tried to pass herself off as a disinterested news source. The left have long done this sort of hatchet job through their news organs.
They just have a harder time getting away with it now. There or haters on both sides, but on the left it is pandemic.
I have been a blogger for some time on the larger right wing sites. Like you I have decried the level of our political discourse and called on my fellow conservatives to denounce bomb throwers like Ann Coulter.
But it must be said that Ann Coulter never tried to pass herself off as a disinterested news source. The left have long done this sort of hatchet job through their news organs.
They just have a harder time getting away with it now. There or haters on both sides, but on the left it is pandemic.
Thank you, Wizard, for your honesty and even-handedness. You are living proof that your whole party has not surrendered. I have to say, though, that this kind of behavior on the left didn't start over Labor Day Weekend. I was a lifelong registered Democrat until about a decade ago. It was the hatefulness you're seeing now -- which I saw starting, at least among my own liberal friends, somewhere around the time Bush came into office -- that made me leave the party and register as an independent. I don't want to be associated with hate-mongers on either side. I can't count the number of liberal friends I've asked about this who hotly respond, "The Republicans did it first!!" Even if true -- and there certainly are hateful Republicans -- I have never been able to understand why someone who is genuinely horrified by vile behavior would so eagerly and thoroughly copy it. And get so much better at it, so fast.
Thank you all for adding your comments. You all are, of course, completely correct. This abysmal behavior didn't start this weekend and it isn't just limited to Democrats.
But I am especially mindful of the comment by novaculus above:
"even more revealing and disturbing is the silence of those others who will not join in but will not call out the haters for the contemptible worms they are."
Moments from now I will add a blog entry referencing a great column today in The New York Post by Andrea Peyser titled A Time Warped Sexist Assault. Read the whole column, but especially note Peyser's call out to our espablished femininst leaders:
"...women on the left, who fought long and hard for the ability to raise children simultaneously with election cash, are in spasms. (Some have simply kept silent. Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton - where are you?)"
Geraldine Ferraro has spoken out very mildly. I give her credit. But there ought to be outrage!!
Thanks for writing this. I have one quibble:
"Barack Obama himself is pleading for restraint."
I think this overstates it. Obama, to his credit, gave a statement that was graceful and correct. But it was just one statement, and that was it. There is no pleading. At best, there was one polite asking, followed by standing back as it continues.
Meanwhile, you have elected Democrats like Barney Frank saying "fair game."
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1116577&srvc=2008campaign&position=12
On the internet, many more people claim to be independents than actually are. I happen to be one, although I am not undecided in this election, so I won't even pretend to say that this has turned me from Obama. However, it is making me wonder if the Democrats need another long walk in the political wilderness, and as such maybe I need to be a little more consistent with which party gets my vote than I have been in the past.
And Wiz, as an independent, I can say that it is not progressives who have lost. Many on both sides of the aisle have proven, time and again, that they gladly will sell their honor for the small price of political victory.
Progressives did not lose their honor, any more than conservatives lost their honor with the way they acted in power recently. What was lost, perhaps, was your innocence in believing your side to be different than the other side.
And when it comes right down to it, the real losers are all of us as Americans, but the loss came long ago.
Full disclosure, I am a Republican and until this weekend I would have called myself a partisan Republican. I was one of the many on the right who refused to fully support John McCain because he wouldn't toe the party line. While I heard what he said about the need for post-partisanship, I didn't really believe it. I felt he was just being vindictive against the GOP because of the events of the 2000 GOP primary.
After the announcement Friday of Gov. Palin as his VP pick I was elated. Here's someone who shares my values, was mayor of a "small town" (almost exactly the same size as mine), and emodied all that I felt was great about America. If you see something wrong, step up and fix it. If you apply yourself and work hard you can go all the way from PTA to the vice-presidency of the USA. I was really excited all weekend.
Then the stuff hit the fan. I started seeing reports of "scandal" on the "righty" blogs that I frequent and I admit I felt a real tightening of the sphincter. Oh no, John had to have checked her out properly, how could he do this to me? Then I saw the push back reports from his campaign refuting the false smears. Over the last two days we have all witnessed something I would never have even imagined possible.
Yes, I will admit with shame that I was among those in the '90's that laughed at Chelsea, that recently made "pant-suit" cracks, etc. Not out of any real hate towards these people, it's just "politics." After hearing John and Sarah speak from the heart over the last few days I now truly believe that they have a different vision than I had at first assumed. They really do want to "drain the swamp" as the saying goes.
Anyway, I'm beginning to ramble so I will conclude with this:
As a former "wingnut" and rabidly partisan "Rethuglican" let me just say that I am sorry and ashamed of the vitriol that I myself have been guilty of in the past. My one true hope for this giant fiasco is that it shines that good old disinfecting light into all of our hearts and perhaps makes more of us realize that while we all have differences in how we should fix the various problems arrayed before us, we must not lose sight of the fact that there are many very real problems looming over our heads. The need for higher respect in the world community, the need for full comprehensive energy reform, the need for full comprehensive immigration reform, the need to ensure a safe and productive nation.
I know that we will continue to disagree on many points as to how to address these issues. I just propose that we all, myself included, try to grow up just a little bit and realize that there are some things greater than our selves or our respective parties.
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Thank you for your post. I was really in a bad place after the barrage I have witnessed, but this kind of post gives me hope for our country as a whole.
Such reckless hate is never a good thing and I won't pretend it has never happenned on our side of the aisle. The owning of your faults is an important part of having integrity. It is sad that you will probably be castigated for your integrity, but that is the price of doing business in this modern political atmosphere.
It is the measure of a good person that they can wake up after being swept up in a movement. I am sorry that people posting here cannot accept you statement as the message of one who can critically look at themself and those surrounding them. Not to overuse the quickly tiring word, but that is the true "maverick" behavior we all espouse to love.
When I was in the Marine Corps, one of our leadership principles was "know yourself and seek self improvement." Realizing where you are is critical to getting to where you want to go. It is not everybody who can stand up and say that the popular sentiment is wrong.
Once again, this is not an issue that is exclusive to one party or the other, but instead it is sadly present in our political system as a whole. Bravo for your insight and I hope it will stand as a warning to those of both parties who would put the ends before the means.
A very eloquent post Wiz. Your post makes me proud to say I was once a Democrat. Because of the feeding frenzy now going on I am reminded of why I switched parties.
I have many friends who were once Liberal and are now Conservative. But,,,,I have none who were once Conservative and now Liberal. What's happening to Sarah Palin is the best example of why. A once great political party has completely lost its mind.
Thank you for your post. I was really in a bad place after the barrage I have witnessed, but this kind of post gives me hope for our country as a whole.
Such reckless hate is never a good thing and I won't pretend it has never happenned on our side of the aisle. The owning of your faults is an important part of having integrity. It is sad that you will probably be castigated for your integrity, but that is the price of doing business in this modern political atmosphere.
It is the measure of a good person that they can wake up after being swept up in a movement. I am sorry that people posting here cannot accept you statement as the message of one who can critically look at themself and those surrounding them. Not to overuse the quickly tiring word, but that is the true "maverick" behavior we all espouse to love.
When I was in the Marine Corps, one of our leadership principles was "know yourself and seek self improvement." Realizing where you are is critical to getting to where you want to go. It is not everybody who can stand up and say that the popular sentiment is wrong.
Once again, this is not an issue that is exclusive to one party or the other, but instead it is sadly present in our political system as a whole. Bravo for your insight and I hope it will stand as a warning to those of both parties who would put the ends before the means.
Thank you for posting this.
As an ex-left of center Blogger. I know just how you feel. This is why I left that sort of mindset. I'm no republican, but I will never vote Democrat again.
again Thank you.
-Pat
Wow, what a post. I can feel the rawness & honesty. The epiphany can really sting. Well, all politicians lie, both yours & mine. You believed what you wanted to believe, just like everyone does to some degree.
I tell you what, though: once you lose faith in that narrative & look at the world without an agenda... only then can you best deal with the lawyers, politicians, and manipulators.
You have been lied to for a very long time. Good morning, and welcome to the real world.
The scales have fallen from your eyes and you are just beginning to see the Democratic party and it's enablers for who and what they truly are.
Welcome to the first day of the rest of your life, hun. You now understand how Theoden felt when Gandalf broke Sauruman's curse and drove him out. I know for I was once a card carrying member of the Democratic party and my "Road to Damascus" moment came in January, 2001.
I will warn you that you are now considered an apostate and you may lose some friends and/or some members of your family might not speak to you again but you will also discover that there are many who feel like you do but are afraid to say so. You will also discover that there are many wonderful people out there that you would have never known because you had the Democratic party blinders on.
Barack Obama has made himself crystal clear on this subject.
Asked Monday, Obama said the Palin pregnancy should be "off limits."
"Let me be as clear as possible... I think people's families are off limits and people's children are especially off limits. It has no relevance to Governor Palin's performance as governor or her potential performance as vice president."
I haven't heard from McCain's own mouth any words to the effect that kids of political families should be off limits.
I challenge all in this room to find any
Wiz, thank you for posting this. I left the Democratic party years ago, when it became obvious that the angry Kos-type extremists had become the party's mainstream.
Yesterday, I was reading posts at DU and Kos. People knew they were spreading lies, but didn't care. All that matters was attacking their opponents and trying to inflict as much damage as possible.
In my core, I'm a Democrat. I agree with the Democrats on probably 75% of the issues this country faces. But I will not support the Democratic party in it's current state.
Thank you for your insightful post. As a lifelong Independent, I formerly voted a mixed ticket based on my judgement of individual candidates, Since 2002 I have voted straight conservative. As an old citizen I have seen our political landscape go straight downhill. As I have looked at those promoted to leadership within the Democrat party I began to think that all in the party lacked any sense. I watched the Democrat primary and watched as Hillary was continually maligned. I grew to admire her spirit if not her policies and was sorry to see that sexism won and promoted a very scary unknown. Once I started to read PUMA blogs I regained respect for many Democrats that were able to discuss their point of view without the vitriole and slander I saw on my rare visits to Kos and Huffpo. If the sincere, patriotic people are able to regain control of the Democrat party, I will once again vote a mixed ticket and select the outstanding candidates regardless of D or R after their name. My current Rep is a supposed Blue Dog D who unfortunately follows orders from Pelosi. It is my fervent hope that the next congress can see where Pelosi and Reid have led them (to the lowest approval rating ever)and elect leaders who truly will function for country first instead of party and personal power.
Wizard, why would any of this surprise you? Have you not followed Obama's career? Are you unaware that Obama won his elections only by destroying his opponents BEFORE they ever made it to the ballot? Are you surprised that David Axelrod, who once worked for the Chicago Tribune, would get that newspaper to file a law suit under the FOIA to have sealed divorce documents made public?
And now you feign sorrow over how low the media, with the smiling approval of the Obama campaign, has gone after Sarah Palin and her 17 year old daughter? Yes, Obama said families of candidates were off limits, but he also knew that no one was really listening. Or would heed his words. Words only have meaning when you are preaching to the choir.
The Obama campaign, with the help of the knee pad wearing media, are not out to defeat Sarah Palin, they are out to destroy her, her family and if her friends are standing in the way and become casualties, so be it. MoveOn.org has sent a team to Alaska to "dig up the dirt" on anyone associated with Palin. Let the chips fall where they may.
And while Senator McCain turns out an ad (and the only ad) on the day of Obama's acceptance speech in Denver saying that Obama deserved "his" day, and in the ad congratulating Senator Obama on his "historic moment" and saying "Job well done, Senator Obama", it seem the Obama does not have the same sense of fair play, having now agreed to go on the most popular cable show in the 8:00 p.m. (EST) slot, the O'Reilly Factor, but ONLY if he could do it on Thursday night, the very night John McCain will give his acceptance speech.
What does it take for the Democrats to see what they have done? They have nominated a candidate who believes in "no hold's barred" politics and you are stuck with him. While the media spends massive amounts of time digging into Palin and every person she ever talked to, they seem to think it is a waste of time to dig into Obama's association with a terrorist who tried to kill fellow Americans or Rashid Khalidi who worked for Yassar Arafat.
So forgive me if your sorrow seems to ring hollow. Politics of destruction from the left has been going on for years (not to say that Republicans have never done it) and one only has to look at the campaign of Michael Steele (called Uncle Tom, lawn jockey by the left) to see how low the far left is willing to go.
Your party, the party I left years ago, has been taken over by the far-left wing and you seem to have slept through it. Your candidates gave credibility to the far-left crowd at the DailyKos convention. Democrats have had multiple articles at Huffington Post and DailyKos, including Elizabeth Edwards after it was learned he wasn't such a family man after all.
And now your shocked, shocked, I tell you, at the level of vitriol that you are seeing.
There is a saying "if you snooze, you lose". It would seem that Democrats of the FDR, Truman, JFK mold have been snoozing for far too long. And now you have lost; to the DailyKos Krowd.
Welcome to reality.
"I haven't heard from McCain's own mouth any words to the effect that kids of political families should be off limits."
He hasn't had any need to say that this campaign.
Thank you Wiz for your post. The Right can get pretty mean too, though, I'm not sure if they've stooped as low as the insanely vicious words towards the Palins, who by most accounts (except some corrupt establishment types), seem like normal, nice folks. I left the Left many years ago, and was considering this year leaving the GOP because of how it's degenerated, but w/the Palin choice I've got hope again for a move towards integrity and government that puts Americans first.
I am deeply saddened by what is happening. I remember the strong, proud, honorable party of Harry Truman.
My father was a Democrats. Some of my relatives are Democrats. Some of my friends are Democrats. I've worked with Democrats. I've worked for Democrats. Democrats have worked for me. The love of my life was a Democrat. She worked for a labor union for 30 years.
And now these wonderful people are being viciously slandered by the filthy people who have stolen their party.
I am sad.
vigilante, my friend, McCain needs to issue such a statement today. Not to ward off the non-existant attacks on Barack Obama's family or Joe Biden's family, but to defend his Vice Presidential pick, Sarah Palin.
But, much more importantly, where is YOUR condemnation?
Perhaps this is what Zell Miller spoke of in his address to the RNC. You are correct that the level of discourse has taken a drastic dive, on both sides. I don't think THAT has ever been different. What changed is the ability to self publish, just as you have, and I'm doing now. A lot of people will allow their personal vileness to escape when they have no accountability, which essentially, is what the anonymity of the Web allows. Kinda like standing at the back of the room throwing verbal spitbals, so long as the teacher's back is turned.
From someone whose politics is "anyone but Obama" (hey, I'm from Illinois, you gotta understand what it's like living with machine-bred smooth-talkers), I gotta say this is a class post. The last few days have been insane, though not a cause for great worry on the right, I don't think. But geez, the respect you're showing is a breath of fresh air. Thank you.
I agree completely with every word the Wizard says. I'm proud to say he's my real life boss. Get 'em, Wiz!
Thank you for this post.
I have been so angry, so filled with hatred at the behavior of the Kos lunatics and their helpers in the mainstream media, their glee as they try to not merely defeat Sarah Palin, but to utterly destroy her.
I'm at the point that I don't care if McCain wins; I just want THEM and anyone they support to lose. I feel, sometimes, that I'd be prefectly to see the whole country burn, as long as they lost, too.
I don't want to feel this way; it's not honorable, or productive, or healthy.
Reading this is a breath of fresh air, and it lowers the blood pressure at least a little bit. I appreciate it, and I respect you greatly.
Wiz,
Your commentary is as poignant as it is true. In another blog, I shared the fear that the "progressive" movement characterized by the daily KOS kids has government as its religion and power as its sacraments. Differing on policy with them by the slightest iota calls not for better arguing a policy, but for the destruction of those who differ. This is not politics, but a jihad, and once that genie is out of the bottle I am unsure how to put it back in...
Your movement will need people of goodwill, such as you appear to be...good luck with a herculean task!
Mongo
Great Post. You should be applauded for speaking the truth. Your beginning may be more prophetic than many might think. These horrific attacks on a good woman (despite the fact that she may not agree with the left's political opinions)in my opinion are only going to backfire on the Democrats, and the Obama campaign and may just propel McCain into the White House. i do disagree with you on your swfitboating comments, as I could give you example upon example about how the left has done as bad or worse to any number of candidates and appointees, but this is not the time or place.
I will just add "Amen" to what you wrote.
Thank you.
Although I am conservative on some issues and plan to vote for McCain, I am socially liberal. Many of my dearest friends hold different political beliefs than I do - but I know them to be wonderful human beings. Period; no qualification.
What a superb post to show that there are indeed great folks who hold viewpoints different from my own - and the courage, wisdom and strength to "call out their own" when they see wrongs being committed.
Thank you for posting this. It has been so disheartening to read the nastiness from some on the left. Though I do not believe that all lefties are vicious and vile, it is still comforting to see my faith in decency validated.
I'm sure you are getting a deluge of us right wingers posting here, but I sincerely hope that Democrats like you stay active and fight to take back your party from people like this. Its a constant battle that we can never fully win, but wouldn't it be nice to have a Presidential race where we disagreed on the issues but agreed to disagree with no hatred and vitriol? The Democratic Party has a lot to be proud of, even if a lot of those on the left are acting despicably today.
I will have to say that I (along with it seems, a majority of the others commenting) am a conservative. I want to thank you for your blog and applaud you for your courage and honesty.
It seems that we are in what could become a real defining moment in history. Which both frightens and elates me. It is so good to see that there are "real" thinking people on both sides of the fence.
Hang in there and something good will come of this, for ALL of us.
"I'm surprised you take issue with that, Mark."
I'm not taking issue with that (if I'm the Mark to whom you mean to direct this).
IMHO, EVERYONE should leave Palin's daughter alone. I'm concerned that the daughter and her boyfriend are being subjected to do (or not do) something not of their own choosing as a result of the attention this has brought down on their heads - we'll never know, I suppose, what the two of them had in mind before all this.
Although I am initially tempted to find it ironic that Palin has been publicly against sex education and freely available contraception, I've been around the block enough to know that the daughter and the boyfriend made their own decisions about their intimacy, did not consult ahead of time with the parents about it, and that the parents had absolutely no role in the kids' choice to be intimate. Palin absolutely cannot be "blamed", held responsible, (and probably should also not be credited for) her daughter's actions. As I mention above, I have some concern that all the limelight is pressuring the kids to do or say something they might not have chosen without all the attention.
If anything, this incident shows that people's actions are guided by their hearts, not by public policy,and that the Palin family is probably like the rest of us in having issues, problems, values, shortcomings at times, and so on.
Wizard,
Why no concern when Michelle Obama was trashed by the media and the republicans? is she not a wife and mother? Sorry i forgot she is a black woman - so can be trashed and abused as an 'angry black woman''baby mamma' etc. There are of course no calls for restraint for the BLACK WIFE of the candidate. But for Mrs Palin - well of course she's a white woman - so can play the white women sympathy card - and every one is outraged..and rushes to defend her. When a black woman is attacked and defamed - apparently that's OK...there is no price to pay..and no rush from ANYONE to defend her honour.
Can someone please explain the double standard.
I read over this a few times, trying to think of something clever to say. And you know? There just wasn't anything. It's juvenile and quite telling that people are rushing to attack Governor Palin over her daughter's pregnancy, as opposed to all the legitimate problems she presents as a VP candidate.
Frankly, I'm surprised that you are surprised by this behavior. Really? This is like, the first thing I would have expected.
Thanks for the post. I enjoyed the comment thread: the most civilized one I have seen in three days! I am happily married, have an MA in Political Science, worked as a computer programmer, and raised 5 kids. The Democratic Party lost me when they surrendered control to the left-wing maniacs. The Republicans Party is barely holding on against its own bigots. I think bi-partisanship means all of us in the middle ought to get together against both extremes.
Wiz,
You seem like a decent enough Democrat. It's just a shame that there are so few of you and that none of you are driving the bus, but rather just looking out the windows to say, "Is that a cliff ahead?"
Wiz, don't you think that when a breathless audience of lefty lemmings applauded Obama's sneeze that there might have been something irrational about their support?
The Left has a big fat dirty underbelly which has become its moral center. They shout down their opposition, throw pies at them, attack them on the street. Take a close look at any big anti-war demonstration and tell me these folks are sane.
Wiz, the radical fringe nutcases are driving the liberal political movement. They don't care about America. They don't care about ethics. They only want to win and an ugly win will do for them. They want to win even if all they win is a chance to stand on top of the smoking rubble.
Who let the dogs loose to rule your party, Wiz?
I say again: Show me the words from McCain's mouth - not his mouth pieces - that he's opposed to using/abusing kids of political families. I say again. Show me the words.
Lest I neglect to mention this, I share "WIZARD, fkap"'s disgust at bringing Palin's daughter into this election cycle.
Moving on ... I am frankly not too surprised to see all the "opposition bashing" going on among the comments, or the over- generalizations, the paranoia, the thuggish group-think mentality.
I can appreciate the "lamentation of the association, however remote, with people who were doing something that isn't right". I note, as have some others here (and in the ether/cyberspace) that we have not seen much "lamentation" on the "right" of its sometime association , however remote, with people on the "right" who have done things that haven't been "proper".
Wiz, The core values you feel have been violated never really existed in the realm of Modern Liberalism or the Democrat Party. Sorry man, it was all an illusion.
You're not quite there yet, but at least the veil is being lifted from your eyes.
If this helps any, here's a clip I highly recommend regarding how another Modern Liberal reached his moment of clarity and his exploration into Modern Liberal thinking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
I hope you come to realize someday that the conservatives of today are simply the ideological descendants of the original liberals... The founders of the greatest nation on earth.
Conservation of those founding principles, embodied in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, is our Clarion call and the platform from which our tag "conservative" is derived.
Barack Obama himself is pleading for restraint.
No, he isn't.
He's just distancing himself from the attacks so (he thinks) he can't be blamed for them. But he wants them to go on, and all of his supporters know it. That's why they aren't stopping.
If he wanted the attacks to stop, he would have picked up the phone and called his wholly-owned subsidiary Markos Moulitsas and said "hey, Kos, give those posts the John Edwards treatment" and that would have been the end of it.
Obama has been swimming in a river of far-left filth since he was a teenager getting backrubs from gay commie poet Frank Marshall Davis, and then getting tutored in Chicago politics by "Rev." Jeremiah Wright. He joined unrepentant terrorist murderer* Bill Ayers to "reform" education in Chicago. His campaign is joined at the hip to Daily Kos. Half of his staffers have accounts there. When Obama wanted to put out his birth certificate, he leaked it to the Daily Kos--not the MSM.
Sen. Obama MUST disown and denounce the Daily Kos.
* Bill Ayers designed the bomb that killed three weathermen terrorists when it went off by accident, including his girlfriend. It was a nail bomb intended to kill American soldiers. Bill Ayers wanted Americans to die, and because of him, Americans did die. Therefore, he is a murderer. He has never apologized and has only said that he wishes he had done more.
@mysticmeg:
Where was Michelle Obama attacked and dishonored?
People have certainly attacked and criticized Michelle public STATEMENTS that she was making as a surrogate for the Obama campaign. There she is a public figure acting as an agent for her husband's campaign and what she says is subject to scrutiny, comment and criticism by her opposition. Sarah Palin is subject to that as well.
They have also used those statements and gone into publicly available records of her actions as a public figure to speculate on her views and how those might reflect on Barack. Again, Sarah Palin's husband can and should be subject to such scrutiny.
No one, however, has ever questioned the parentage of the Obama's children. No one has ever wondered what the negative effects of their father running for President or being President, might be on these two little girls. No one has ever wondered whether being President might take time away from Barack being a proper father. And no one has dragged one of the Obama girls into the limelight and used one of the most difficult and embarrassing moments in her life as a club with which to hit her father.
That's what's happened to Bristol Palin.
THAT'S the difference.
@tantor:
By 'liberals' you're referring to both major political parties and all of the smaller ones that are big enough for anyone to know they exist, right? Because the behaviors and attitudes you are describing are endemic to politics as a whole. It's unrealistic to attempt to paint it in terms of one party or the other. The parties are all just a different brand of moral failing.
@markinirvine
Then you really haven;t been paying attaention to the right all that much beyond your caricatures of it. In just one example, it was right wing bloggers and commentors who first brought Trent Lott's racist comments to light and cost him his position in the Republican party. There are also more than a few right-wing bloggers who have been active in debunking the "Barack Obama is a Muslim" smear.
I and many others on the right (more than you would likely believe) oppose Obama because we believe his policies would be bad for America. I do not believe he is evil, I do not question his patriotism and I do not believe that he is doing what he is doing for any reason other than he believes it is the right thing.
I just believe he is wrong.
We very rarely get the same consideration from the other side of the aisle.
What this Republican wants to know(and I'm not even going to attempt to apologize for being rude)is
When are you going to stop crying about it and actually DO SOMETHING about taking your party back from the hate mongers like the DU and the Kos kids?
The turn this thread is taking is confirming my thinking that little is accomplished in these exchanges (apart from maybe some individual "eye-covering-scale removal"): eventually there is a flurry of general statements without support (that the format lacks room to support), leaving everyone in much the same position s/he was when the exchange started.
..very nice blog and commentary; it is reassuring to come to a place far away from the din of zealots from both sides.
I am a Republican and I despised Hillary Clinton from her odious stint with her husband in the 90s. However, when I saw how she was brutalized by the Obama campaign and their MSM sycophants (and this was after the tear-shedding incident), I felt very sorry for her. Her valiant struggle against all odds made me a little angry that her message was not being seriously listened to.
Then, strangely, I came to believe that she was actually the better of the two candidates up for nomination -- which isn't saying much, considering Mr Obama's lack of experience in any area except promoting himself.
What is happening to Sarah Palin and her family is more of the same from people who play a vicious form of politics without restraint.
In any event, I rapidly see that this uncivil discourse -- the antithesis of Obama's claim to the contrary -- will get this country nowhere. There are some very good ideas (and some very stupid ideas) emanating from both parties; it's a shame most of us cannot listen.
For my part, I shall support John McCain this year, should he win, will be looking forward to giving polite and honorable consideration to Ms Clinton in 2012.
I’ve given my respectful (and sincere) remarks about leaving Ms. Palin’s daughter out of the debates. Now, I’m going to “call a spade a spade”, “tell it like it is” (as I see it at least), take the gloves off, or thumb my nose at “PC” behavior.
Her daughter is ignorant, maybe ignorant and stupid. She didn’t need to get pregnant, but she did because she is ignorant and/or stupid. She (and the father) could have used birth control but she/they didn’t because they are ignorant and/or stupid.
On the other hand, maybe we CAN blame the parents for the daughter’s situation: maybe she’s pregnant because her parents didn’t talk to her frankly about how to avoid pregnancy. Certainly, the best way to avoid pregnancy is to keep the penis and the vagina apart from each other. I said something above about neither blaming nor giving her parents credit for anything in particular in regards to the daughter’s condition. I’m now taking that back.
I obviously don’t know what the Palin parents tell their children about sex, contraception, pregnancy, and related issues. I presume that they told this child about “abstinence”, given that Ms. Palin’s public pronouncements inveigh in favor of “abstinence” and against sex education in public schools. I presume as well that the Palins’ daughter did not receive sex education in schools.
I suggest that if her parents had given their daughter REAL sex education (the parents' responsibility, after all, no?) in their raising of her (including but not limited to biology, conception, contraception, information about the physical, emotional, financial and parental responsibilities of parenthood) the daughter (I presume) would more likely have used contraception and NOT GOTTEN PREGNANT.
It is admirable that the daughter and the boyfriend have (apparently) decided on their own to have the child, marry and raise he child. It is stupid that they got themselves into this situation and will now have to forgo what’s left of their youth and postpone getting an education and preparing for the adult responsibilities of parenthood, work and marriage, responsibilities which they must now shoulder at a young age because they didn’t know or understand that contraception was an acceptable option when they decided (or let their hormones guide them) to have sex.
It is also unforgivably irresponsible to bring a child into the world when her parents are so unprepared to take care of the baby the way the baby needs and deserves. The Palins’ daughter is now responsible for perpetuating the cycle of ignorance, lack of education. So, maybe it isn’t “PC” to put it this way, but this is the way it is – get used to it. The daughter will have to get used to it.
The pity’s that the baby will have to get used to it as well.
Good Sir Wizard,
Thank you for restoring my faith. I'm a Democrat, a McCain Democrat this time out, but still a Democrat nonetheless.
I tell you, I've been appalled at what's been going on these past few days. And not merely because Democrats and liberals have been going after the VP nominee chosen by my candidate.
Rather, it's because of the way in which they're doing it! See Andrew Sullivan, a man I previously respected (no more!) for his deranged comments on baby Trig. He actually suggests that because the Palins brought baby Trig to the convention tonight, that entitles him to a full document list proving he's really Gov. Palin's son, and not his grandson. Still!
This sewer-crawling was the province of the Clinton-Deranged Republicans throughout the Nineties -- never in my wildest nightmares did I think my fellow Democrats were capable of it.
Given that, I wanted to thank you again from the bottom of my heart for personally illustrating that not all is lost in my party.
Joe Conason makes my point more eloquently than I have at: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/why_bristols_baby_matters.html
Gosh: even Laura Schlesinger nails it, here: http://www.drlaurablog.com/2008/09/02/sarah-palin-and-motherhood/
Mark in Irvine, First and most important, welcome to the Wizard blog and for all your excellent comments here. Second, thank you so much for linking this essay in YOUR blog. I appreciate it!
Let me also say I've read a great deal of your blog this morning and we have much on which we agree.
Having said all that, you sir don't know a damned thing about Bristol Palin, her education, her family upbringing or even her use or non-use of contraceptives.
Much more importantly, it's none of our business. That is EXACTLY the legal basis of Roe v. Wade. And it's been to operating standard of progressives and liberals for 40 years.
Christ on a crutch. How many pregnant 17 year olds are there in your town? I live in a town not much bigger that Palin's and there are dozens (hundreds?). Are you checking out each of them?
I realize Dr. Schlesinger is part of the bedroom police brigade. That's exactly why liberals so hate her. As for Joe Conason, he is simply an amoral political hatchetman. Joe would NEVER, EVER write a similar article about a Democrat.
And that is the bottom line here. As a strong supporter of women's rights we cannot and must not have a double standard, one for Democrats and a different one for Republicans.
I'll go one step further. We should not have a separate standard for men. If it's not a legitimate question for Joe Biden, then it's not a legitimate question for Sarah Palin.
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“Having said all that, you sir don't know a damned thing about Bristol Palin, her education, her family upbringing or even her use or non-use of contraceptives.”
Completely true – I don’t know anything specific about her but what is out there in the internets. I know generally, from personal experience, however, how far 17 year – olds generally have gone in their education, how emotionally, mentally, physically, fiscally mature they are (from observation of teens in their natural habitat).
It is unfortunate that the spotlight is on Bristol, who deserves the relative peace and quiet that the late-teen years usually offer. The attention being paid to her is a natural and unavoidable consequence of her mom’s involvement in the life of the nation. She’s hardly the first kid to be scrutinized as a result of her parent’s actions.
I have nothing against Bristol personally. I wish her every good fortune. She’s got a challenging road ahead of her, and she’ll need all the support that everyone in her life can provide, plus tremendous internal, personal strength, in order to make sure that life goes well for her baby and herself, and for the boy, if indeed he “mans up” and does the right thing by her and the baby.
I’m opposed to double standards; I’m a strong supporter of women’s rights, I’m a strong supporter of kids’ rights. I agree that Dems deserve to be subjected to the same scrutiny as Repubs, and think that anyone who holds him- or herself out as a paragon of virtue, wisdom, strength, etc. is asking for vetting and should expect to be subjected to some heat.
We’ve seen the increasing role that the so-called “values agenda” has come to play in politics in this country: we’re asked to believe that the personal life reveals much about character, and that character indicates much about worth. The argument is pretty persuasive, because it corresponds often to our personal experiences. Bristol and her baby are real people, with real needs, emotions, strengths, weaknesses, dispositions, goals, and so on. Unfortunately, Sarah, by stepping onto the public stage (and I hear she did quite well last night – not really a surprise considering that she’s a former “miss something or other” and a former on-air TV personality) has brought herself and her personal life and family into focus.
Bristol, as Sarah’s dependent child, is part of that personal life. Bristol certainly would not have attracted so much attention if her situation had not seemed to be so out of synch with her mother’s professed views on matters of public interest. If Sarah becomes Vice President, it’s not unreasonable to expect that her opposition to contraception and sex education will inform her efforts in that role, both domestically and internationally. For better or worse, Bristol is now something of a public figure.
A big concern I have in all this is that Bristol is having important PERSONAL matters decided for her by her mother’s (and the GOP’s) political/PR considerations. Apparently it wasn’t until some “journalist” found his Facebook or My Space page, where the boy was revealing that he had no intent to marry Bristol, that the boy began to say he would marry her.
Bristol and the boy have the right to be left alone and to decide what they will do, or not do. I suspect that “right” has been taken away from them. To an extent, maybe that could be a good thing.
In normal circumstances, Bristol would be exposed to the risk of being left “holding the baby” by an irresponsible jerk of a boyfriend (if he even was that) – I think most of us have heard of such cases. To the extent that the limelight might influence the boy to stick around, that seems like a good thing, overall, but only Bristol and the boy and the baby will know or find out.
It would be unfortunate for Bristol and the baby if the boy did dump Bristol. That risk is why some of us make sure our kids know that pregnancy and parenthood make for a wonderful, miraculous experience, but one that is best reserved for a time when our kids are ready (as ready as they can be) to deal with all the responsibilities they entail.
Sarah Palin’s views on sex education and contraception, if adopted as policy or law, would work deny kids the opportunity to take action to avoid pregnancy when they weren’t ready for it. Moreover, it’s not just Bristol and her “partner” (and countless kids like them) who stand to be affected by policy wrought by Sarah’s views: their baby is also a “player” in this drama. And let’s remember that if Bristol weren’t pregnant, she would never have any reason ever to think about, want, or have an abortion. Abortion becomes an issue only when somebody is pregnant, and pregnancy can be avoided.
correction:
"Sarah Palin’s views on sex education and contraception, if adopted as policy or law, would work to deny kids the opportunity to take action to avoid pregnancy when they weren’t ready for it."
mark in irvine - Once again a well thought out comment. Sarah Palin's position on every issue is fair game: Clearly I do not agree at all with her on sex education or a woman's right to chose.
Bristol and her boyfriend should not be part of any discussion. Period.
The joy of making Bristol break up with her fiance, who she is in love with and vice a versa, is the joy of the Democrat party: both its leadership and its most loyal followers.
But the problem is, conservatives don't hold dysfunctional lifestyles as a positive thing. THey don't seek to advocate it. They don't seek to create it in their opponents, for their opponents live in AMerica and creating dysfunction in America is called treason.
When you consider that dysfunctional families create serial killers, rapists, murderers, crime, incest, hate, psychological problems, it is not a virtue to say that "I don't know anything about Bristol but let's talk about how the media attention is a good thing because the media attention will"... will what, get her a husband? She had that all planned out beforehand: there was no question of who, only a question of when. THe media doesn't decide when. They decided when. The media didn't know her, they were given this information because they were already accusing Bristol of being the mother of Trig.
So when John McCain said that Chelsea Clinton was so ugly because her father was Janet Reno, did everyone on this list feel similar outrage? When Michelle Obama was accused of saying "whitey" when clearly it never happened but someone, somewhere was going to produce a tape--was there similar outrage? And the notion that Obama is going to call Daily Kos and have them shut down their comments is as ludicrous as John McCain calling Michelle Malkin and her doing the same. It doesn't work that way, folks. We are all responsible for our own words and actions. Those words and actions can be encouraged, but individuals are responsible. And speaking of personal responsibility, I will just say this: there is no need to bring Bristol Palin into the conversation. Except for the fact that her mother is the person who did so. If you run on the platform that you have strong family values and are a "hockey mom" just like me, then you are saying that these are your qualifications and justifications for seeking my vote. Small wonder then, that people become interested in what kind of mom you are. John McCain doesn't talk about what a great father he is or how being a father informs his decisionmaking. That's probably why you can't name all of his kids; he has never made them part of his political image. If you, however, come out of the gate extolling the virtues of your particular brand of family values, you should expect some scrutiny. As they say in court, "Your honor, she opened the door."
Many commenters are also forgetting that the media scrum is in large part a result of the fact that up until a week ago nobody had heard of Sarah Palin. So of course there is a rush to find out everything they can. The issue for me, regarding fitness for office, is the fact that McCain so poorly executed this, the first major decision of his presidency. He trial ballooned Lieberman and Ridge. Why not Palin? All of this could have been out weeks ago. John McCain bears responsibility for the position Sarah Palin is in, and as much as I find her every belief antithetical to my own in the most fundamental of ways, I feel rather bad for her because her running mate so woefully prepared her for the role she was about to assume. It is also important to differentiate between sexist and non-sexist remarks. Anything about going back to work 3 days after giving birth to a special needs baby is sexist. Anything about "what are your specific and detailed qualifications for this position?" (a question everyone is asked in any job interview) is NOT.
In my opinion, it's easier to get all lathered up about "the media" than to accept that John McCain handled this most important of presidential decisions in potentially the least competent manner ever witnessed in a general election. For me, it's not about Sarah Palin being unqualified; it's about *McCain* being unqualified. This whole episode says more about his decisionmaking skills than anything else.
What E. says!
And, as Heraclitus said, "Panta rei"
As a Democrat-turned-Republican myself, I have long been dismayed by the behavior of those on the Left. Among other things, it makes the people on our side lazy; after all, why hold serious discussions on the issues, when you just have to say, "Vote for us, or you'll get those wackjobs"? We need a Loyal Opposition, and one that is not demonstrably insane.
I would say: If you, like The Wizard, are a liberal or Democrat who doesn't approve of the vitriol currently being vomited forth across the land by the true moonbats, then START SPEAKING OUT. Denounce these people as the trolls they are. Let the world know that their views are not your views. Take back your party from the moonbats that have gained control of it.
Remember: Silence gives consent. And, if you let yourselves be represented by the likes of the Kos Kiddiez, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
E said, "And speaking of personal responsibility, I will just say this: there is no need to bring Bristol Palin into the conversation. Except for the fact that her mother is the person who did so."
Do you understand WHY her mother did so? Clearly not, so here it is: Trig is 4 months old, and the despicable part of the media and blogosphere was stating that Trig wasn't Sarah Palin's child, but her grandchild. Partly to disprove that horrid accusation against her daughter by showing that it was physically impossible for that to have been the case, and partly because the Attack-Dog-Media-For-Obama was sending planeloads of investigative reporters to Alaska (which didn't exist for John Edwards, and which have never existed for Obama) and would have found out ANYWAY that her daughter was pregnant, she was pretty much forced into saying "Oh, by the way, my daughter is 5 months pregnant."
Sarah Palin and the policies she espouses are up for grabs - criticize them to your heart's content, because that's what politics is all about. Family SHOULD be left out, as long as they don't inject themselves into the campaign with policy pronouncements or political criticism of the other candidate.
E also said, "And the notion that Obama is going to call Daily Kos and have them shut down their comments is as ludicrous as John McCain calling Michelle Malkin and her doing the same."
True, but only to a point. One would presume that Daily Kos wants Obama to be elected, just as Michelle Malkin wants McCain. I also agree with your later comment that we are all responsible for our own words. BUUUUUT: If you are Daily Kos or Michelle Malkin, and your candidate calls or otherwise contacts you and says, "Hey, I'm glad you're on my side and all that, but you are KILLING me. Please stop doing X, or I'm going to lose" - well, what is the likely outcome? I'd say that there will be a bunch of grumbling, but either blogger would likely toe the line and try to help their candidate. That said, I sincerely doubt that Obama ever even contemplated doing something along those lines, demonstrating a bit of disingenuousness - and THAT is what has people on this thread a bit rankled.
As for McCain not bringing his family into the campaign, but Palin doing so: you are, again, somewhat correct (but not completely so). McCain is 72. He has 20+ years in the military and close to 30 years of public service after that to hang his credentials on. Sarah Palin is, like Obama, young enough that they need to use their families as part of their narrative - and, I daresay, both are proud of their respective families, warts and all (just like all of us), and there's nothing wrong with mentioning them. McCain chooses not to, to run ONLY on his record, and that is to his credit. That Palin speaks of her children and husband does not, however, equate to a whistle being blown to announce open season on every member of her family. That kind of despicable behavior is the subject of this entire thread (and, by the way Wizard, THANK YOU for posting your thoughts). You seem to just fail to get it. You're not as off the walls as Daily Kos and others, you're clearly more rational and measured and decent, but you still don't get it. Maybe you need to re-read the original post.
Wizard - again, thanks for the post. I forwarded it to several people on my email list, to let them know that there are still some honest and decent liberals out there (which is hard to tell these last 8 years, but especially during the last week). Thanks for your honesty, and thanks for your attempt to bring some civility back to our public discourse. I hope it has some meaningful effect, though I fear it won't (and, in fact, I think that if Obama loses - which I hope to be the case - there will be massive rioting across the country - which I sincerely hope will NOT be the case). In any case, best of luck to you and yours.
E said, "And speaking of personal responsibility, I will just say this: there is no need to bring Bristol Palin into the conversation. Except for the fact that her mother is the person who did so."
Do you understand WHY her mother did so? Clearly not, so here it is: Trig is 4 months old, and the despicable part of the media and blogosphere was stating that Trig wasn't Sarah Palin's child, but her grandchild. Partly to disprove that horrid accusation against her daughter by showing that it was physically impossible for that to have been the case, and partly because the Attack-Dog-Media-For-Obama was sending planeloads of investigative reporters to Alaska (which didn't exist for John Edwards, and which have never existed for Obama) and would have found out ANYWAY that her daughter was pregnant, she was pretty much forced into saying "Oh, by the way, my daughter is 5 months pregnant."
Sarah Palin and the policies she espouses are up for grabs - criticize them to your heart's content, because that's what politics is all about. Family SHOULD be left out, as long as they don't inject themselves into the campaign with policy pronouncements or political criticism of the other candidate.
E also said, "And the notion that Obama is going to call Daily Kos and have them shut down their comments is as ludicrous as John McCain calling Michelle Malkin and her doing the same."
True, but only to a point. One would presume that Daily Kos wants Obama to be elected, just as Michelle Malkin wants McCain. I also agree with your later comment that we are all responsible for our own words. BUUUUUT: If you are Daily Kos or Michelle Malkin, and your candidate calls or otherwise contacts you and says, "Hey, I'm glad you're on my side and all that, but you are KILLING me. Please stop doing X, or I'm going to lose" - well, what is the likely outcome? I'd say that there will be a bunch of grumbling, but either blogger would likely toe the line and try to help their candidate. That said, I sincerely doubt that Obama ever even contemplated doing something along those lines, demonstrating a bit of disingenuousness - and THAT is what has people on this thread a bit rankled.
As for McCain not bringing his family into the campaign, but Palin doing so: you are, again, somewhat correct (but not completely so). McCain is 72. He has 20+ years in the military and close to 30 years of public service after that to hang his credentials on. Sarah Palin is, like Obama, young enough that they need to use their families as part of their narrative - and, I daresay, both are proud of their respective families, warts and all (just like all of us), and there's nothing wrong with mentioning them. McCain chooses not to, to run ONLY on his record, and that is to his credit. That Palin speaks of her children and husband does not, however, equate to a whistle being blown to announce open season on every member of her family. That kind of despicable behavior is the subject of this entire thread (and, by the way Wizard, THANK YOU for posting your thoughts). You seem to just fail to get it. You're not as off the walls as Daily Kos and others, you're clearly more rational and measured and decent, but you still don't get it. Maybe you need to re-read the original post.
Wizard - again, thanks for the post. I forwarded it to several people on my email list, to let them know that there are still some honest and decent liberals out there (which is hard to tell these last 8 years, but especially during the last week). Thanks for your honesty, and thanks for your attempt to bring some civility back to our public discourse. I hope it has some meaningful effect, though I fear it won't (and, in fact, I think that if Obama loses - which I hope to be the case - there will be massive rioting across the country - which I sincerely hope will NOT be the case). In any case, best of luck to you and yours.
Paul,
I understand what you are saying, and I do in fact "get it." I just happen to disagree with you on a few of the nuances.
I am coming from the perspective that there seems to be a lot of liberal self-hatred going on here. I'm more along the lines of Mark in Irvine. I'm all about calling people out for ridiculous behavior, but are we really saying that all liberals/Democrats are out to get Sarah Palin? That's not even close to the truth and we all know it. Let me list a few of the remarks from these comments which are, ironically, unsubstantiated attacks:
"normal leftwing behavior"
"a once great political party has lost its mind"
"There or haters on both sides, but on the left it is pandemic."
"the angry Kos-type extremists had become the party's mainstream."
"these wonderful people are being viciously slandered by the filthy people who have stolen their party"
Where is the evidence for any of these statements?
And one final note regarding attacking candidate's families. Karl Rove and Tucker Eskew work for the McCain campaign (okay, Rove is an "unofficial advisor"). Both men are responsible for the 2000 smear that said John McCain's Bangladesh-born daughter was an illegitimate black child he had fathered. That's some pretty monstrous stuff, no? And yet McCain has hired them! They now work for the man whose child they so disgustingly smeared. So, not to excuse anything going on with the Bristol-Trig stuff, but let's not pretend the Democrats invented personal attacks. It seems to me that they must be so normal on the Republican side that you can eventually work for the guy whose daughter you dragged through the mud. And here's where my opinion on John McCain comes down to character: if anyone ever did that to my child they would be dead to me forever. The notion that I'd give them a job 8 years later is a complete non-starter. Much as it speaks volumes to you all that "the Kos people" have pursued a nasty storyline about the Palin's baby, it speaks volumes to me (and one wonders to McCain's daughter Bridget?) that these two men responsible for one of the nastiest things ever leveled at a candidate and his daughter (and as the mother of an internationally adopted child, I can assure you is his REAL daughter just like any of his other kids), are now in his employ.
Personal attacks indeed.
Wizard,
Some people are probably posting to apologize for what their "side" is posting here, saying in effect "please don't pay them mind; they're still young and don't understand what they're saying."
I'd like to apologize for the man in Irvine. He might be male, but he represents the most neanderthal-like approach to women & parenthood I've seen in a long time. He's probably sincere in his beliefs that he's a liberal, but it doesn't appear that he really understands women at all.
I think he can be educated, though.
It appears that BDS slides quite naturally into PDS.
I was embarrassed (at best) when Clinton drove the Republicans crazy. There was an incredible amount of sheer nastiness in opposition. (And some legitimate criticism as well - Clinton was no ideal president.)
And I will admit I did not speak out. I was like Niemoeller's narrator.
Sometimes I think there is a pool of just crazy people who switch apparent party affiliations at the drop of a hat or a convention balloon.
There is an incredible amount of just plain nastiness typed by people about people like Palin. I don't know if I can visualize that there are the same number of people who'd say the same things in a mixed group. Surely their parental training would take over & they'd be careful how they'd say these things?
Then I remember the number of people I've met in the past few years who are simply crazy about Bush. At a recent play about the Holocaust, I was discussing the play with a friend, and within 2 sentences he jumped from Hitler and the Jews to Bush and the Americans, and began pointing his finger at me, raising his voice, and telling me how BUSH WAS JUST LIKE HITLER!!!!ZOMG!!ELEVENTY!!!!
I was nonplussed. Yeah, saying Bush is just like Hitler is an argument, but do we have to have that at full throttle in the public theatre? To me, that's just unhinged.
I associate myself with E's position completely.
Just to tack on to Miller (above): I have a self-diagnosed case of BDS. It's incurable (except by his internment at the Hague which is unlikely). But it's not terminal. But I have not yet slid into PDS. I won't, most likely, unless Palin starts an unprovoked invasion of another country. Like Bush did. And no, Bush is not Hitler. But Bush is definitely un-American in his policies, politics, and values. And he's going to be as unfit for the office of president on Day 2,920 as he was on day 1. Worst President Ever.
I have spent the last week perusing the daily comrade, Huff & Puff Post, Newshounds, Crooks and Liars, etc... It is unbelievable the level of hate and vitriol directed at Sarah Palin. it confirms my hypothesis that the left really suffers from a type of group inferiority complex. They realize that their belief system is strong in theory and weak in practice. Evidenced by the reign of Jimmy Carter. Socialism has never trumped capitalism for a prosperous economy despite their ranting and ravings. Low income, middle income and upper income Americans always do better when true believers in the free market inhabit Capitol Hill.
E
Rove may or may not have been responsible for that rumor.. doesn't matter because although regrettable that type of attack has been proven to be rather ineffective. Rove has a history of dirty tricks going all the way back to the Nixon days...but this isn't about one campaign strategists indiscretions ... this is about a mass hysteria and the resulting lynching of the current Governor of Alaska by not only by a few nose picking nerds who inhabit the blogasphere but also members of legitamate main stream media.
"group inferiority complex"?
Americans are going to be asking themselves if they are better off this year than they were eight years ago. And the answer they're going to come up with is "No". And the reason that's going to occur to them is "George Bush". And that's the reason they're not going to vote for John McBush.
"I'd like to apologize for the man in Irvine. He might be male, but he represents the most neanderthal-like approach to women & parenthood I've seen in a long time. He's probably sincere in his beliefs that he's a liberal, but it doesn't appear that he really understands women at all."
This is getting off-track. I'm genuinely curious to understand the Neanderthal comment, because I'm not really a Neanderthal - I've got 3 sisters, 4 sisters-in-law, 1 mother, countless woman friends, and I'm a dad of 2 kids and an uncle of lots of nephews and nieces. Perpetually horny - yes; Neanderthal - no. Please, feel free, Miller, to explain at my site or e-mail - I invite your comments.
Thank you for your post. Like most people you reject scuzzy behavior. That gives me, as a conservative, hope for the future. Thank you.
May I respectfully point out that if the media had actually been doing its job in 2004 there would have been no need for "swiftboating". But in a vacuum such as occurred then when critical claims were being uncritically accepted, something had to arise in its place.
Therefore, though I understand your use of the term, I do not agree with your frame of reference.
Best wishes.
I know several people who have had this kind of epiphany over the years. On of them, a good friend, career history professor had his during the 2000 election. Was once a staunch progressive, now a principled conservative.
"Conservative" isn't a monolithic group -- any more than "Progressive" is. We conservatives don't all agree on everything, either. But we do have some common ground and have respect for each others' opinions even where they differ. If we didn't, there would be no conservative movement. You might come in and look inside. You might be pleasantly surprised at what you will find.
Conservatives used to have a lot to contribute to our national conversation. (I voted twice for Reagan.) Since afflicting America twice with Bush and Cheney, they have a lot of explaining to do. Starting with, "I'm sorry." If they don't resume the conversation with those words, all I want to know is why they hate America so much.
vigilante, Based on the 80 or so conservative comments here, I'd say conservatives have a lot to offer now.
You may well be right and conservatives might just owe America an "I'm Sorry." But.... well, but.... I don't think Republicans or conservatives are filled with hate. I don't believe for one minute any one of them woke up in November of 2004 and said "Let's Screw America."
I think every single voter tried to do what he or she belived was best for America.
I think they are doing their best this year, too.
The results speak for themselves, Wizard.
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